InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "I've got an angry inch!"

lilian_cho (lilian_cho) wrote,
@ 2008-03-20 23:19:00

Entry tags:

chinese, fandom, fanfiction, japanese, lj, lytdybr, theories, to-do

On the Attraction of Boys' Love and Androgyny
Disclaimer: This is my own observations on androgyny and the Japanese genre of Boys' Love.
I'm a Japanophile and have a few Japanese friends in rl, but I'm not Japanese. Just to let you know.
Wanky comments will be deleted =P

Plug at will. Am curious about what other people think.

This post originated as two comments in response to flyingskull’s comment on the Boys' Love genre.

Compared to Japan, the United States is a "moral" country. In Japan you can see businessmen ("salaryman") on the underground train reading hentai (pornographic) manga on rape, chan, etc. Even the shoujo manga (comicbook targeted to young girls) is quite smutty nowadays. In the United States, those smutty shoujo manga would earn at least an R rating.

What the Western world know as "yaoi" or "shounen-ai" is called "Boy's Love" ("Boisu Rabu") in Japan. This is Japanese schoolgirls and housewives' ~~wank material~~ naughty fantasy. Boys' Love is written by women for young girls and women. As such, realism is not a concern here.

A huge segment of the FanFiction.net population is influenced by Boys' Love. So if you want to claw your eyes out in horror as Draco in a pink apron cheerfully offers his "back virginity" to dominatrix uber-possessive Harry, now you know which cultural phenomenon to blame =P

Boys' Love ranges from the sweet toothachy kind to the violent kink-filled BDSM kind that you now and then have the ~~utter luck~~ misfortune to pick up.

Sweet Boys' Love (usually labeled "shounen-ai" by Western fans)

The sweet kind is highly unrealistic and portrays the bottom as, well, "the girl." Readers are not concerned about how gay sex works in real life; this is all about teh pretteh and fulfilling their romance quota. Consequently, there's no lubricant, no condom--a lot of times they don't even have penises. (Okay, they do, but it's often blurred out in sparkly bubbles)

That's why the leather crop-toting Harry can slide in and nullify Draco's "back virginity" in one sentence. Peppered with liberal application of "MINE" and "omgyours!" of course.

Boys' Love writers for the most part consider real gay culture irrelevant. They automatically assign the taller boy/man as "seme" (lit. "attack," the top). This is supposedly for aesthetic reasons. Perhaps it has something to do with how taller people exude more ~~intimidation~~ authority than shorter people.

There's been a movement toward realism in Boys' Love, sexual-practices-wise. However, ultimately the manga is there to make the female reader identify with the "uke" (lit. "receive," the bottom), who is almost always more feminine. About 90% of any Boys' Love you pick will be told from the bottom's point of view.

* To reiterate: Boys' Love refer to top and bottom as "seme" and "uke." The word "seme" is derived from the verb "semeru" which means "to attack." The word "uke" is derived from the verb "ukeru" which means "to receive." Trivia: the Japanese word for "receptionist" is "uketsuke."

Explicit Boys' Love (usually labeled "yaoi" by Western fans)

Then there's the ones filled with kinks that you've never even thought of (Yes, HP fandom, there are kinks that you have yet to encounter in fanfic, believe it or not). BDSM, orgies, public humiliation, bestiality, bloodplay, mindfuckery, tentacles, guro, insert-random-object-into-random-orifice, etc. etc.

This is basically hardcore NC-17 PWP filled with squicky kinks. Not much comment on that because I always stop reading whenever I get squicked.

The Attraction of Androgyny

*points to icon* Yes, that's a boy. A 20 y.o. young man, actually.

For some reason, girly boys and boyish girls are famous in Japan and Korea (okay okay in some other parts of Asia too, but not as much as in Japan and Korea). The girls do not necessarily want those androgynous boys to be their boyfriends, but they still squeal over them.

~~Ogling~~ Looking at an androgynous person, you see both masculine and feminine aspects embodied in a single person. I find this blending of aspects intriguing, at least in a pop star/idol. I would not classify androgynous types as handsome or beautiful, but I do enjoy looking at them.

My sole theory on androgyny so far: the attraction of androgynous features has something to do with cuteness and children. You look at an androgynous person, and you see all these "would-be"s--all these potentials contained in that one body. To me it's like looking at a child and thinking, "She'll be very beautiful when she grows up, and all the boys will fall all over her." It's a wistful response to the fleetingness of youth. In your mind, you think, "In a year or so his voice would break, he'd grow pimples, and he wouldn't have those smooth rosy cheeks anymore."

ETA 03/23/08:

venturous' comment below reminded me that this attraction to androgyny is by no means new.

Several Chinese gods are _both_ male and female. In one version, Mother Goddess Guan Yim started out as a fisherman. Once you achieve perfection/god status, you embody both male and female, yin and yang.

This blurring of gender lines have gone both ways for centuries (possibly millenia, I'm not that well-versed with Chinese history).
In Japan, there's Takarazuka (all-women theater troupe) and Kabuki (males playing both male and female roles). In China, there's all-male theater troupes and several instances where women play male roles. The most recent one was Madam White Snake, a TV series back in the early 1990s, where a woman plays the human husband of Madam White Snake.

There's something exciting in putting on the opposite gender role. It's like staring at your reflection as a make-up artist works magic on you. Day in and day out, you catch a glimpse in the mirror of what you might look like--and you look on with wonder as your eyes become more arresting, your lips more plump, your skin more lustrous...

It's rare for a girl/young woman to have both a tomboy-ish disposition and a boyish/coltish figure. I sit and walk like a guy, but I was never coltish so I couldn't ever pass as a guy. On the other hand, I know many young women with boyish figures who are very soft-spoken and "lady-like."
(When I was volunteering at the library, I did mistake one girl for a boy until her mother corrected me, to my embarrassment. In my defense, she's ten years old. After that incident, the next time I saw her she was wearing pink ^^;;)

/end rambling

Comments? Theories? =)

Now X-posted @ LJ.

Next up:
- "Why Slash Attracts Women--My History of Encounter with Slash"
- "Manga Art: the romanticizing of violence and Caucasian characters"

~~P.S. You might find this LJ post interesting: Sex and flirting in Japan by supacat~~ 03/31/08: The post is now F-locked

(Post a new comment)

	Here via Meta Friday skuf 2008-03-21 08:21 am UTC (link)
	I would not classify androgynous types as handsome or beautiful I certainly would - but I rarely find them physically/sexually attractive. the attraction of androgynous features has something to do with cuteness and children Huh, that's an interesting theory, will have to mull it over. Off the top of my head, I don't think you're completely off track. (Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Here via Meta Friday

lilian_cho
2008-03-21 08:34 am UTC (link)

Hello =)

I have a very arbitrary definition of beauty that most Westerners don't agree with. (I did grow up in Asia after all)

Nobody I know in rl actually like androgynous boys, so I have no pool of opinions to draw from. Also, I'm mainly in the HP fandom instead of animanga/J-pop fandom, so again I'm mostly alone in my appreciation ^^;;

All Asian women I know (not Asian Americans) do agree on one thing: they don't like facial hair on men. Also, for some reason, most Asian women like fair-skinned men (I don't). They half-jokingly say they want to improve the gene pool for theirr offspring =P

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Here via Meta Friday lilian_cho 2008-03-21 08:46 am UTC (link)
	their* I swear I usually can spell. (Reply to this) (Parent)

venturous
2008-03-21 03:32 pm UTC (link)

I would not classify androgynous types as handsome or beautiful, but I do enjoy looking at them.
OMG I do. I have always been wildly attracted to androgyny.Give me pretty boys and strong women. There is something hinting at a radical completeness, (I have no idea what that means, *g*), and access to magic, in blurring the gender lines.

I am reassured to hear that Japanese women use boys love fantasies for their own erotic pleasure. Helps ease my last few shreds of "wtf is wrong with me?"! :p

Lately I have been musing that I need to work with male characters to really express my own sexuality in an unfettered way. As if there is something still binding even my fantasy or fictional females to a standard of decency that I long to escape!

Thanks for the thoughtful topic.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

long reply

lilian_cho
2008-03-21 03:59 pm UTC (link)

Thanks for dropping by and commenting! =)

*g* I love strong women too. Boyish girls is so much rarer than girlish boys though. You see the "tomboy" type in the media but past a certain age they become a sex symbol that's all womanly =P
Case in point: Keira Knightley in Bend It Like Beckham v. Keira Knightley in subsequent movies.

It's rare that a girl/young woman is _both_ a tomboy and has a boyish/coltish figure. I sit and walk like a guy, but I was never coltish so I couldn't ever pass as a guy.

There is something hinting at a radical completeness, (I have no idea what that means, *g*), and access to magic, in blurring the gender lines.

Ooh, I like that =D I should have included up there how Chinese gods are _both_ male and female. In one version, Mother Goddess Guan Yim started out as a fisherman.

This blurring of gender lines go both ways for centuries (possibly longer, I'm not good with Chinese history).
In Japan, there's Takarazuka (all-women theater troupe) and Kabuki (males playing both male and female roles). In China, there's all-male theater troupes and some instances where women play male roles. The most recent one was Madam White Snake, a TV series back in the early 1990s, where a woman plays the human husband of Madam White Snake.

And hee, magic \o/ In a way, putting on gender roles is like magic. Just like how putting on make-up feels like transformative magic. *nods*

I am reassured to hear that Japanese women use boys love fantasies for their own erotic pleasure. Helps ease my last few shreds of "wtf is wrong with me?"! :p

X-D LOLOL same here. Boys' Love = Shoujo is v. v. similar, since their target audience is one and the same *g*
Nowadays, a lot of shoujo has Boys' Love elements. Even shounen anime shamelessly panders to Boys' Love fans X-D
e.g. Naruto and Sasuke's first kiss in the FIRST episode of Naruto lolol

Lately I have been musing that I need to work with male characters to really express my own sexuality in an unfettered way.

Write from their point of view, you mean? Or...

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: long reply

venturous
2008-03-21 04:07 pm UTC (link)

In one version, Mother Goddess Guan Yim started out as a fisherman. cool! I will look for Guan Yin stories... my good friend 'collects' her... house full of Guan Yin art.

[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<i.write>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

<i>In one version, Mother Goddess Guan Yim started out as a fisherman.</i> cool! I will look for Guan Yin stories... my good friend 'collects' her... house full of Guan Yin art.

<i.Write from their point of view, you mean? Or...</i>
hmmm, right now I mostly read, draw and drabble. But it's like I adopt their energy as my own, and it frees me. Currently, my erotic life is solo and fantasy-based.

Its as if when I feel 'female' I am not as sexual.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: long reply

lilian_cho
2008-03-21 04:24 pm UTC (link)

*points up* Updated the post with more thoughts thanks to your comment =)

I suspect the fisherman theory is v. unpopular, lol. (In S.E. Asia, Guan Yim has the same reverence accorded to the Virgin Mary.)

Many Chinese gods/goddesses start out as humans. Considering the path that they need to take to reach god status (no sex, no meat, no wine, etc.), in a way sex is irrelevant at that point.
Chinese monks--both male and female--shave their hair and wear the same grey-colored robes. When you're bald and wearing a nondescript uniform, it's not that easy to distinguish the sex you're born with...

Its as if when I feel 'female' I am not as sexual.

Ahh...I see. I sort of understand what you mean. Is it maybe because feeling 'female' --> feeling passive?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: long reply lilian_cho 2008-03-21 04:37 pm UTC (link)
	Also: goodness, no wonder your username rings a bell. I've seen your art around =DDD (Reply to this) (Parent)

elfflame
2008-03-21 05:42 pm UTC (link)

I've only recently managed to get into Manga, so a lot of those terms are still a bit new to me, though I do recognize them. It's nice to see the meanings behind them, though. :D

I do find it interesting that Manga readers in Japan expect the same things that a lot of slash readers throw up their hands in disgust. Specifically the feminization of the uke.

And I love your insight as to why Androgeny is fascinating. It does make some sense.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

lilian_cho
2008-03-22 12:44 am UTC (link)

*g* "Seme" and "uke" is my favorite top v. bottom labeling so far. It's just so action-based and leave little room for misinterpretation X-D

I do find it interesting that Manga readers in Japan expect the same things that a lot of slash readers throw up their hands in disgust.

lol yes. And the uke almost always cry in every single sexual encounter lolol. What I find surprising, though, is I have yet to read an mpreg boys' love. I've seen boys' love where the characters joke about mpreg, but ultimately they don't cross over that male-female line.

Glad it makes some sense to you ;-)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	akuma_river 2008-03-22 01:13 pm UTC (link)
	I need to correct you here. I've read Mpreg manga. DokiDoki is a scanlation group that is doing the Animal X series. The male is able to get pregnant first because he was born a hermaphrodite, second because of a weird scientific experimental drugs, third because the father isn't human. It's also not sugary sweet but not explicit either. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lilian_cho 2008-03-22 11:50 pm UTC (link)
	I vaguely remembered Animal X but never downloaded it X-D (I stopped downloading BL manga after my computer caught a virus and I had to reformat everything...) Okay that makes a lot more sense that there are mpreg BL out there, lol. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	celandineb 2008-03-21 06:21 pm UTC (link)
	Hm, interesting -- especially the thought that androgyny might be attractive (in a not-necessarily-sexual way) for the same reason that children are attractive (in a non-sexual way), that it's about the potentiality we see there. I'm not sure if I agree completely, but it's an interesting idea. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lilian_cho 2008-03-22 12:47 am UTC (link)
	To me, androgyny never has a sexual element, but I realize (as the other commenters say) that it is sexually attractive to some people. I can't even begin to guess how androgyny can be sexually attractive, since aside from my slash obsession I'm as straight as straight can be ^^;; (Reply to this) (Parent)

tsukinofaerii
2008-03-21 07:38 pm UTC (link)

insert-random-object-into-random-orifice

I cracked up. XD WIN.

My sole theory on androgyny so far: the attraction of androgynous features has something to do with cuteness and children.

Offering another theory, maybe it has to do with latent bisexuality? Most people have someone they'd go gay for, but in most countries it's less acceptable to be bi than to be gay or straight. This nicely satisfies that without "crossing the line", so it speak. Even in our own heads, it's "okay because s/he's really a guy/girl". Your children theory might work, except that there's a sexual element for most people I know who like androgynous figures, and that's just not there for most people and children.

Then again, it could be there, and that would work the same way as being bi, because being a pedophile is a lot less acceptable. Hm.

Now I want to rinse out my brain.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

lilian_cho
2008-03-22 01:02 am UTC (link)

lol thanks, your icon is made of win too X-D

Verging on the land of TMI here, some of the Boys' Love insert-random-object I've seen includes camera batteries, dynamites, and a HAIR DRYER @_@

/end traumatizing flashback

Most people have someone they'd go gay for

O HAI I just realize that I'm even straighter than I thought (discounting my slash obsession), because I don't have anyone like that. I'm a sucker for "princess" types (soft-spoken, lady-like, decorous girls), in the sense that I want to protect them from the wolves--but nope, 0 desire to do anything sexual with them.

This nicely satisfies that without "crossing the line"

Mmm yeah that does make sense. In a butch-meets-femme kinda way. X-D <-- have no idea what I'm talking about.

To me, androgyny never has a sexual element, but I realize that it is sexually attractive to some people.

I think a big part of pedophilia is the perceived helplessness of children. There was a study that shows children with "cute" features (large eyes etc.) are less likely to be abused (physically and sexually) than children with more mature/adult features.

*offers you brain bleach*

;-)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

tsukinofaerii
2008-03-22 01:24 am UTC (link)

@.@ Way to spread the pain! But yeah, I've seen some of those. But "random-object-into-random-orifice" made me think of the possibility of "celery in ear pr0n", and... XD I cracked up.

I got it from Pheret1! Don't know if she made it, but when I saw it I laughed so hard that I cried, and then I had to have it! She thinks I'm on step 6. I think she's right.

I'm not a good person to ask, because I'm openly bi - 50/50 really, which isn't as heard of as the bell curve makes it seem. (People don't own up?) so I find andro very sexy, but I also like femme-girls and masculine-guys. So eh. (shrug) But I've a few straight or gay friends who like it too, and they're attracted to them too, which is what made me think of it.

In a butch-meets-femme kinda way. X-D <-- have no idea what I'm talking about.

I actually understood that! Best of both, right? Neither extreme, but just enough of both... Yeah. (wants to go see some Versailles vids now o.o;)

Pedophilia is... strange. Offending pedophiles talk themselves into it and somehow convince themselves that it's not hurting the kid and that it's OK... I don't get that. oO; But it could still sort of go back there, in some ways. They do tend to look child-like, and clothes tend to reflect that. I don't know any non-offending pedophiles, much less any who are also into andro (they might be mutually excusive because of the way that particular paraphilia works), or I'd ask. It'd be interesting to hear that perspective, in a creepy sort of way.

Thank you. (accepts bleach) I worry me sometimes, when I get analytical of things that should have an instant "EW" reaction. (scrubs!)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

lilian_cho
2008-04-01 12:46 am UTC (link)

(Sorry for the late reply. Also: cute Mashimaro icon! <3)

"random-object-into-random-orifice" made me think of the possibility of "celery in ear pr0n", and... XD I cracked up.

AHAHAHAH someone needs to write that X-D

I've a few straight or gay friends who like it too, and they're attracted to them too, which is what made me think of it.

Hmmm...I wonder how that works.

Best of both, right? Neither extreme, but just enough of both... Yeah. (wants to go see some Versailles vids now o.o;)

LOL! I was a Versailles addict too! The manga though, not the anime. I can't stomach the flowering roses in the anime X-D
I used to have such a crush on Oscar and I wanted to crush Marie Antoinette under my heels =P
And of course, that servant girl's crush on Oscar is so cute <333 But in the end, I ship Oscar/Andre. (Haha Oscar is totally the top in the relationship)

I don't know any non-offending pedophiles, much less any who are also into andro (they might be mutually excusive because of the way that particular paraphilia works)

Mmm, I would think non-offending pedophiles would admit of having sexual feelings for children. There's that element of power play in pedophilia--which is absent in androgyny, I think.

I worry me sometimes, when I get analytical of things that should have an instant "EW" reaction.

At least it's analytical and not "OM NOM NOM NOM" X-D

(Reply to this) (Parent)

iulia_linnea
2008-03-22 09:39 am UTC (link)

My sole theory on androgyny so far: the attraction of androgynous features has something to do with cuteness and children. You look at an androgynous person, and you see all these "would-be"s--all these potentials contained in that one body.

That's interesting. I do find androgynous people attractive, but I've always assumed that this is because I'm bisexual; the possibilities I see are much more adult. ;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	lilian_cho 2008-03-22 11:51 pm UTC (link)
	I do find androgynous people attractive, but I've always assumed that this is because I'm bisexual; the possibilities I see are much more adult. ;) g Yes that makes sense. (Reply to this) (Parent)

akuma_river
2008-03-22 01:32 pm UTC (link)

Interesting.

I tend to stay away from Sweet Boy's Love (otherwise known as Shoujo with boys) it tends to run into the same gauntlet as Shoujo and Shoujo made me run screaming to yaoi as I had a tiny bit of a homophobe in me at the time.

*praises Gravitation for introduction into Shounen-ai and Yaoi*

I tend to classify things as hard-core, yaoi, and non-hard core shounen-ai.

Oh as for the condom issue... I've run into a few that do that, they just don't show it. Which is odd since Japan is like the number 1 country in high percentage of condom use among all sexually active males, be they gay, straight, or bi.

I also ran into one manga Yattaneratze (sp) that addressed HIV/AIDs and the downfalls of casual sex. (It's scanlated by DokiDoki 7 volumes long)

I like story's but if I can't get that then I want the sex.

Because of yaoi, I tend to have no more squicks.

I like the bishies. It's mainly why I was reading shoujo in the first place. And I got tired of ditzie girls getting the hot guys so I switched genres to where two bishies hook up together, no ditzie girls! I'm much happier.

It's also odd that because of the lack of realism in the genre I have turned mainly to fanfiction to fill that lapse. That's why I love the HP fandom. Even though, I tend to put Harry into the uke role (he just fits the pushy bottom so much!) I like it be realistic in some areas such as teh smex.

I think it's because of my Japanese Otaku self that I still have Harry address Snape as Snape even when they are banging. I just find that the intimacy that happens in the moment when they call each other by the first names is much more powerful shows their love as if it was a confession of their all on its own. I blame that on Japanese honorific system.

I think the attraction of Androgyny has to do with the attraction of a lack of gender roles. Being forced to uphold what society deems acceptable for our gender and sex roles is frustrating so we seek out an exception to the rule where anyone can be anyone and not have to deal the stigma of being outside our gender roles.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

lilian_cho
2008-04-01 12:37 am UTC (link)

(Sorry for the late reply)

Oh as for the condom issue... I've run into a few that do that, they just don't show it. Which is odd since Japan is like the number 1 country in high percentage of condom use among all sexually active males, be they gay, straight, or bi.

Hm. I think that also has to do with the Japanese meticulousness re: hygiene and non-messiness.

I don't remember any Yattaneraze character contracting HIV. That's the manga with Shino the seiyuu/voice actor, right?

Because of yaoi, I tend to have no more squicks.

X-D

That's why I love the HP fandom. Even though, I tend to put Harry into the uke role (he just fits the pushy bottom so much!)

lol, I guess that makes sense since you ship Snarry. Over at H/D, we have more Harry/Draco than Draco/Harry fans ;-)
Esp. with HBP and Draco OMGcrying in the bathroom *sob sob*

the intimacy that happens in the moment when they call each other by the first names is much more powerful shows their love as if it was a confession of their all on its own.

*nod nod*

Being forced to uphold what society deems acceptable for our gender and sex roles is frustrating so we seek out an exception to the rule where anyone can be anyone and not have to deal the stigma of being outside our gender roles.

Hmmm...makes sense.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

akuma_river
2008-04-01 12:57 am UTC (link)

That's okay.

Yatteraneeze!

Actually none of the characters got it, but it was for several chapters/volumes a real issue. Someone that someone had sex with did contract it, so through the call of shame chain it came down to the main pairing. The tests came out negative, but it was the first ever manga series that dealt with it.

I also ship Draco/Harry it used to be my OTP.
I think it was because of HBP that I switched to Snarry.
It's because I see Harry as needing someone to count on.
I still ship it, but I like to think of HBP/DH Draco as Draco under extreme stress and having a mental break. Otherwise I still think of him as a strong character.
I do have them switch the topping though.

In fact in a couple of my threesome fics, I have Harry top Draco.

I just can't deny Drarry and Snarry, Harry himself said he was obsessed over them. Even Ron and Hermione and Ginny make comments all through out the series about how much Harry obsessed over them both.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

lilian_cho
2008-04-01 02:21 am UTC (link)

lol, I'm thinking of Sakende Yaruze instead X-D

Someone that someone had sex with did contract it, so through the call of shame chain it came down to the main pairing. The tests came out negative, but it was the first ever manga series that dealt with it.

That is pretty cool.

Actually HBP made me see endless Snaco possibilities lol. Well, and H/D too of course. But yeah, the Half-Blood Prince thing...totally. The whole Snape-staring-into-Lily's-eyes thing in DH creeps me out though.

Hehe, I know. HBP reads like it was written by an H/D fan X-D

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

akuma_river
2008-04-01 02:50 am UTC (link)

Ah, yeah looking at it, it sound similar.

I don't see it as Snape-staring-into-Lily's-eyes, I see it as Snape staring into Harry's eyes. ;D

What Rowling gave us for the Snape/Lily falls short of love. Lily didn't return the feelings (even though Rowling says they could have worked it out) and Snape I think was either crushing or just thought of Lily as a friend.

She was first friend and his only girl friend. I didn't see love there, I saw friendship, friendship that Lily didn't care for. She kept making demands out of Severus and she never listened to him.

Not to be rude or anything, but I think Lily was the popular girl who was a bit preppy. She didn't see how she made Severus good. She only saw the dark in him.

She was a bit cruel in that.

Then again, they were 16 year olds got up in a war, espionage, and potential death, maybe she had a right to doubt him, but I don't think she've done what she did.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

carpet_diemon
2008-03-23 06:19 am UTC (link)

I think I ended up here via metametameta. Rather interesting. I'm pretty androgynous; I get mistaken for a boy just as often as I am called out for a girl. It's not the most comfortable position (although I'm quite used to it) to explain that I am not a "mister" nor "you, boy" incessantly. I might be able to remedy the entire thing by wearing one of those bras that turns your breasts into a chin-rest or more makeup...

Anyway, I don't really find the manly-woman or the womanly-man thing interesting. But I do find the defenseless (demure, perhaps?) man interesting. I also find the m/m relationship easier to deal with. The idea that one is submissive and the other active (I think you called it "attack"?) interesting. In most het I see, these roles are taken up by virtue of gender, which I find really irritating. I feel like, in good slash, the author works out this power struggle in a way that nobody ever does in het.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

lilian_cho
2008-04-01 12:41 am UTC (link)

(Sorry for the late reply)

It's not the most comfortable position (although I'm quite used to it) to explain that I am not a "mister" nor "you, boy" incessantly.

I bet ^^;;

I do find the defenseless (demure, perhaps?) man interesting.

You mean, taking on a more passive role in a gay relationship?

In most het I see, these roles are taken up by virtue of gender, which I find really irritating.

Ah yes, too true. With the dark pirates and scantily clad women with heaving bosoms ;-)

in good slash, the author works out this power struggle in a way that nobody ever does in het.

Yeah, too bad there aren't more slash fics where both have the same position preference and have to duke it out to get their way. Heh.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	carpet_diemon 2008-04-09 01:41 am UTC (link)
	You mean, taking on a more passive role in a gay relationship? Hmm. I don't know if it would be merely in a gay relationship or even in simply a sexual one. Frankly, I'd be interested in seeing how it worked even in day-to-day life. (Reply to this) (Parent)